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L’histoire d’André Syre
Nous connaissons déjà l’histoire du pionnier acadien, Pierre Syre mais l’histoire d’André fut souvent ignorer. Pourtant, il a bel et bien exister lui aussi, mais au Québec, plus particulièrement dans la région de Montréal, bien qu’il ne laissa qu’un seul descendant qui lui donnera une lignée de Syre québécois.
En l’année 1668, André s’engagèreà LaRochelle. En France, André exerçait le métier de journalier et couvreur d’ardoise mais ce métier lui étant inutile en Nouvelle-France, il s’engagea à titre de journalier simple. André donc passa un contrat d’engagement comme journalier pour 70 livres par année, pour le compte de la Compagnie des Indes Occidentales et c’est Gilles Gaigneur, un marchant de LaRochelle qui l’engagea à titre de trente-six mois comme il était la coutume de le faire à l’époque.
En 1671, son contrat d’engagé étant terminé, André habitait une terre dans la seigneurie de Pierre de St-Ours qui était situé entre Trois-Rivière et Montréal. Il y défrichait et cultivait la terre comme tout les autres habitants des environs.
En 1672, la terre qu’il habitait, cultivait et entretenait lui fit officiellement concédée par les autorités en place. Ainsi, il devint propriétaire de son lopin de terre sur lequel il avait investi son temps et son énergie.
En 1675, André en bon catholique, se rendit dans la seigneurie des Jésuites de LaPrairie au Sud-Ouest de Montréal, pour y recevoir le sacrement de confirmation. Ce déplacement était évidemment naturel pour un colon privé de services religieux réguliers.
Le 12 décembre 1679, à l’île Jésus (Montréal), il épousa Elisabeth Charbonneau, et en 1680 il devint avec son beau-père, un des premiers concessionnaires de l’Île Jésus, confiée au Séminaire de Québec, où ils tiennent feux et lieu. Il n’y avait, à cette époque, que 27 habitants. C’était un début très modeste pour cette ville francophone qui contient maintenant plus de 2.5 millions d’habitants.
Au fil des années de leur mariage, le couple fut béni par la naissance de trois garçons et d’une fille. Un seul des garçons survécut jusqu’à la maturité et lui donna une lignée simple de Syre (Cyr) au Québec. Ce fils naquit en 1687 et fût prénommé Joseph et le couple lui avait choisit Joseph Barbeau comme parrain. Les autres enfants moururent tous en bas âge.
Curieusement, en 1688, André découvrit un trésor dans la cave de sa maison. Ce trésor consistait en quatre livre de minerait d’argent de bonne qualité. Les autorités lui promirent une récompense s’il trouvait la source de la mine qui se trouvait dans cette cave de maison. Malheureusement, il ne trouva jamais la source de cette mine car l’année suivante, sa destinée en décida tout autrement.
L’année 1689 fût très mouvementé par les événements qui transformèrent la vie de cette famille à jamais. En premier lieu, le 24avril, le couple fut béni par la naissance d’un fils qu’ils prénommèrent Michel. En second lieu, le 16 juillet 1689, il obtenu une concession de terre de la congrégation de Notre-Dame, qui étaient administrer par Marguerite Bourgeoys elle-même. Mme. Bourgeoys s’occupait de la ferme St-Gabriel, au Sud de l’île-Jésus (Lachine, actuel), près du fleuve et des domaines environnants, comme celui qui fut concéder à André Syre, à Laval au Nord de Montréal. Finalement, durant la nuit orageuse du 4 au 5 août 1689, des iroquois attaquèrent en force au village de Lachine près de Montréal, non loin de l’endroit ou habitait maintenant André et sa famille.
Au signal donné, toutes les maisons furent attaquées en même temps, défoncées, incendiées et les habitants qui sortait de leurs habitations, furent évidemment mal menés par les assaillants. Il y eut des morts, des
blessés, des disparus et beaucoup de prisonniers. Le village était rasé, réduit à la ruine totale. André fût parmi les victimes de ce massacre car bien que ne vivant pas à Lachine, il a souffert de ce massacre puisque suivant leur victoire à Lachine, les iroquois continuèrent de semer la terreur dans les environs et se rendirent jusqu’à Laval, ou était situé la nouvelle concession d’André. Le 22 août 1689, suivant une attaque iroquoise, il fût tué. On l’inhuma le jour même de sa mort.
Notons que ce massacre se voulait une vengeance contre le gouverneur général Denonville, qui deux ans auparavant se rendant avec une forte troupe chez les Iroquois du lac Ontario où il avait invité ces iroquois à un banquet et avait aussitôt profité de l’occasion pour faire brûler les villages, détruire les récoltes de blé d’Inde, disperser aux quatre vents ceux qui réussirent à se sauver et faire prisonniers et envoyer les survivants en France pour travailler comme esclaves sur les galères du roi. Le prix de cette vengeance fut payer par les simples habitants des concessions de l’Île Jésus.
Sa jeune veuve Elisabeth restait seule pour assumer les responsabilités de ses trois enfants, dont un bébé d’à peine trois mois et deux gamins. Elle put sûrement bénéficier du support et de l’aide de Marguerite Bourgeois qui avait comme mission de réconforter la jeunesse dans sa misère. Marguerite consola sûrement les trois garçons de Syre, traumatisés par la mort atroce de leur paternel. Un seul de ses trois enfants, Joseph, comme nous l’avons vu plus tôt, survivra à la misère coloniale de l’époque.
Le 12 juin 1690, soit moins d’un an après la mort d’André, sa veuve Elisabeth dût écourter son deuil pour se remarier avec un ami du couple de longue date, Joseph Barbeau. Ce même Joseph Barbeau était le parrain du petit Joseph Syre, donc le couple dût obtenir une dispense de parenté spirituelle pour pouvoir s’épouser. Le mariage eut lieu à Lachenaye au Nord-Est de Montréal. Notons qu’à cette époque une veuve n’avait pas bien le choix de se remarier en toute vitesse car les conditions de vie en Nouvelle-France ne leur permettait aucunement d’assumer seul leur destiné et celle de leurs enfants. Le couple que formait désormait Joseph Barbeau et Elisabeth Charbonneau fut béni par la naissance de 8 enfants qui leur donneront une nombreuse descendance.
Remarquons que l’on parle d’honorer la mémoire d’André Syre en faisant apposer par la ville de Laval (nord de Montréal), à l’endroit de la concession offerte à André par Marguerite Bourgeoys, une plaque commémorative en souvenir de ce vaillant pionnier.
Références :
1. Abbé L. Auger, Vendéens au Canada aux 17e et 18e siècle, 1990. P. 68,
100, 157.
2. Grenon, H. Us et Coutumes du Québec, Edition Lapresse, 1974. P. 309.
Note from Yvon
Contrary to the original posting regarding Andre Syre, provided me by Carole Michaud and posted on my https://acadian.org/asyre.html, Andre WAS NOT THE BROTHER of Pierre Sire and this has now been proven by DNA, according to Suzanne Sears who stated the following in her email message(s) to me on January 17-18, 2010:
Suzanne’s Message # 1:
“A note to tell you:
The DNA tests have arrived
to compare the blood of the two men: Pierre and Andre
Pierre Sirre Acadia and Andre Syre Quebec are not related in any way.
Thanks
Suzanne Sears
Suzanne’s Message # 2:
The only thing Pierre and Andre have in common is the same ancient Celt tribe:
with the slight possibility of a common ancestor up to around 1400 AD
Deeper DNA testing did show no family relationship for around 1,000 years…….
Andre clearly spelled his name Andre Le Syre: and clearly identified his home town as Fontenay in his labour contract:
However: his parental details don’t quite line up: thus we are hunting him as if from start….
As for Pierre:………there is nearly zero possibly he is from Bourgeil…..or Tours or Loire Valley…….
This is some old speculation based on rumours that the original financiers like D’Aulnay brought in people from his fief………which he clearly did…….
But he also drew heavily on people from the north like Perche and at least 20 from the south Toulouse regions.
All the Sire clans are being quickly identified:
Bourgeil was searched by their archivist and there is not a single Sire family in the region: my research repeats these findings.
The likelihood is that Pierre is Norman………and probably from Belgium/Dieppe/ to Dunkirk regions………given that he chose to spell it Sirre and his handwriting is very Norman Gothic merchant in style…………..Sirre being a Dutch way to spell it……..
And contrary to popular belief: names that got spelled incorrectly in Canada by priests unfamiliar with their parishioners: did not do so in France where they had historical relationships over time with families:………..thus the spellings are very much “on purpose” and tend to stand over hundreds of years……
His signature as Sirre: leaves little doubt to his heritage.
We are just now completely a “tour” if you will of the Belgic border regions on a hunt for him……….and actually don’t expect it to take long to find him if he was ever there…….
The other very real possibility is that he was MicMac………
Hope you are enjoying this as much as we are: this hunt! We won’t stop until we find him!
cheers Suzanne
Suzanne’s Message # 3:
The earliest Le Syre family in Poitou seems to be around the year 1125 with Gillemi Le Syre: who clearly was a Catalan: Spanish………….and the Le Syre a clear reference to Saint Syre as they wrote it quite often.
Pierre Sirre however uses a Dutch/Norman spelling. However there were just a few in La Rochelle, nearly zero in all the rest of France; but huge numbers in Luxembourg, Belgium and Holland……..
And the last French ships to Canada before the expulsion were mainly from Dieppe………during the years Pierre would likely have come over.
Smilz Suzanne
Suzanne’s Message # 4:
And that is not all!
Pierre’s DNA ONLY links up to 3 families in the world: all of them direct blood ancestors to William the Conqueror……….
All 3 of them with blood origins from a small spot of Caen to Dieppe………two near perfect matches………
That is clearly where his ancestors came from:
Danish Vikings to Normandy
But what makes on crazy: is the name spelled Sirre as he did……..
it matches NOTHING related to any Syre family in France: with only one left to check out…….
Either he wrote it that way on purpose: to throw off his identity or he simply made a spelling mistake:
(which is only one of 6 men in Port Royal who could write their own names seems unlikely)
or he wasn’t from France directly at all…….
the name Sirre is clearly Dutch: but his DNA is not………
So: either he was a Huguenot living in London already……….and came over something like the Melancons did………….
or
he was living in New England already with the Dutch……….as many French were doing…….thus linking him to Thomas Temple Gov. of Boston and Acadia……..
or
he was a Metis:……….and didn’t know how to spell his name………historically…….
but I can’t find a source for him to get that kind of education to write that way:
no priestly schools………
Sirre was never pronounced as Seer: always as Sur or Sirr………
it is clearly Norman and not the La Rochelle Seer sound…..of Le Syre…….
Sirre as a name is making me nuts: it just doesn’t come from France………
We continue!
Suzanne’s Message # 5:
Up all night: that Sirre thing making me nuts:
so went back to his handwriting: and realized upon review the way he wrote the P in Pierre was only used in Northern France and only by scribes for expensive works……..thus Pierre could never have learned that as a Metis……..
The more I chased the handwriting the more it started to come together: and I went back over it all to make the pieces fit:
his DNA
his name
his profession
Acadia
only one place on earth that all lined up and that was in Rouen region.
(being the centre of making ammunition for France and the biggest metal forges etc in mainland France)
then I briefly recalled the Le Seuer family I had reviewed briefly a long time ago:
Looking again: I finally got it!
A family that only ever used the name Seur as a family name from the beginning of Norman history: who were relatives of William the Conqueror……….
Nearly all of this entire family was chased out due to the religious wars:
many many of this family ended up in London for awhile………..where the name was spelled Sirr and Surr…..=Sirre
And of whom tons of them ended up in Boston………….
That is the only Sire story that fits every piece of Pierre
He can be everything we know about him… if he comes from this family.
Suzanne’s Message # 6:
(April 3, 2010)
Hi Yvon:
I have sent you a lot of data: and it is confusing: and a few have asked for a list of what is truly known: so I thought I would send you a summary:
A) Sirre as Pierre wrote it is not a legitimate French family surname: then or now in France
B) The only known family to write their name as Sirre at any time in history were the LeSueur family of Abbeville, France.
C) Sirre was the name of a village for a short period of time: Cierrey in Normandy today
D) Sirre is a common Dutch and English spelling for LeSueur.
E) The DNA is 95% match to Abraham (De la) Haye of Connecticut in the early 1600.s
meaning common male ancestry within the last 300 years
(who most commonly wrote it as Hase)
F) Sirre is only pronounced as one pure Sear sound when it comes into contact with English or Germanic cultures……….otherwise it is Sur-ah or Sur-ay
-either Pierres descendents lost the true sound of his name
or
-he came to Acadia via New England or related channels
G) The DNA is a 80-95% close match to 10 Norman surnames with direct lineages to Rollo the Viking in Normandy
-the Dela Hayes are in this list
H) The DNA is found anciently only in the Cotentin to the north, Alencon to the west, Nonancourt to the south and Abbeville to the east: centred at Rouen.
I) A DNA strong match to a different surname is indicative of a name change: it is highly possible Sirre is a dit name.
J) LeSueurs and Delahayes frequently intermarried and travelled in the same social circles and the profession of both was Sires………..(with the exception of a 2nd lineage of unrelated LeSueurs)
K) Both LeSueurs and Delahayes were Huguenot Protestants chased out of France to Holland, Germany, Switzerland and England………..and most who came to New England caught their ships out of England……….and spent at least 6 months there
L) Delahaye is most often a title and carries another surname in front of it: as in John Smith…Dela Haye
——————
We have one viable Canadian candidate for Pierre:
Pierre de la Haye: B. 1644, Carignan Soldier: Quebec: abjures Aug 24, 1665
origin unknown: fate unknown.
-right age, right profession, right time in history, right place, right DNA, right story……..
Otherwise:
most of the data presents that Pierre likely came to Acadia via New England route.
Also: I should add, there were several LeSueur families living in New England before Pierre arrived in the new world as well.
Both DelaHaye and LeSueurs lived in New England prior to 1700 AD and were associated with the Dutch Reform churches………..a strong hint that they had been in Holland during exile……….traveling to England for transport
………which as I mentioned previously, was not a quick process……….it took time to make those arrangements and thus some records of these people exist in England as well..
there was a small and active French culture in New England…………but who clearly Anglicized themselves quite a bit: such as the Melansons……….
Otherwise, most worship went on in the reform churches and most records still exist today and need to be searched………as Sirre would be the preferred way of spelling LeSueur for the Dutch and English.
—————————–
There remains only a few speculative possibilities as to how Pierre got to Acadia other than mentioned already:…………
but no evidence at all to support any of these theories……….unlike the 2 viable theories listed earlier…………
-possibly via Jean Talon and Nicholas Denys in their efforts to establish a mining industry from 1666 onwards: they brought over 150+ men from Dieppe……….the venture failed and what became of the men is hard to say…………….but in general: labourers are not consistent with Pierres level of education
-possibly one of the 9 men brought to Gaspe by Talon during 1666 region from Nantes to kick start a fishing industry ………..this too failed………..
-one of Denys own soldiers: after he was burned out in 1668……the men were released. Denys did make contracts for men: but so far, none are found for Pierre.
-Le Borgne brought over 20 men engageé………for Acadia in 1668 when he thought he was getting Acadia back…………he did not……..so did the men stay or go back………no one knows…..but again: it is unlikely Pierre would need to sign an engageé contract……..and we should have found it by now anyway…………..
– 1 Belgian Swiss engineer brought to inspect Gaspe for minerals……….by Talon……
Talon, Denys and LeBorgne were in the habit of making contracts for all the men they brought over: since we do not know of any for Pierre, it makes the possibility lower that Pierre came this way to Acadia…………or else a better search is needed.
—————————-
LeSueur in Canada is the same name as Lizot and Lizotte and Lozier…..just a different spelling…..so unless Pierre is hiding in plain sight under another version of the name, entrance to Acadia via Quebec is possible, but improbable.
He would be nearly the only man in all of Quebec to come and never once cross paths with another citizen: never bought anything, never lived anywhere……….never went to church and took confirmation:…..never a witness at any event………….never seen by any of the only 3,000 people living there.
The best explanation is that he never was anywhere else in Canada but Acadia, where indeed he did leave a record…………and that he came either as a discharged unknown Carignan soldier or through New England.
This is what is known so far.
Cheers Suzanne
Suzanne’s Message # 7:
(April 3, 2010)
The newest information on Pierre and potential DNA matches is this:
We had confirmed that on a primary level Pierre was a perfect 12 out of 12 match to the SIRART family of Martainville, Normandy
SIRART by the way means Tax Collector: Not Lord
We were also able to trace an entire lineage in the same or simiilar region to the Suhart family also known as SUHARD………and SUARD………..
This was a very ancient and illustrious Norman clan originating family wise from the Cotentin…..and probably pre dating Rollo………of the Vikings living there about 100 years prior………..but kin to Rollo…..if we go by family associations.
SUARD seems to be the most ancient version; and we find the De Hemez family: Constable of Normandy and the SUHARDS……….as constant companions and witnesses to charters of Kings etc.
Now we know the SIRART family ended up with massive land grants in Wales………….
We know the SUHART family had the same story……..
but one lineage of the SUHARTs ended up with land in Cornwall………..
And oddly enough, we soon find the spelling SEUARE……….which morphs over time to LE SUUYRE……..and Le SYEARE………quickly becoming the name Le Syr………
Now even more astonishing is that Pierre matches these SEUARE at 18 out of 20 markers…….that is an astonishingly strong connection for a difference in time of 1,000 years
So I think we can safely say: that SIRARTS AND SUARDS AND SUHARTS are one and the same:
since Pierre matches both genetically…………
And I think there is little doubt any more that he really was a Sirre of some kind
What was left in France in his lifetime was this:
SIRART: very very little: and mainly only in Paris. …..a tiny bit in Normandy
SUHARD: big lineage all over Normandy of very high standing: almost all nobles
LeSueur:……….by far the biggest number……of 2 social classes: one noble and one trades…..do we interpret Le Seuare in Cornwall as the same thing?
that I dont know yet..
We can take the LeSires of Dieppe to Amiens to Dunkirk out of this equation for now:
we dont have evidence to make them fit in at this time
and these as well seem to be of at least 2 distinct lineages.
(This being the probable lineage of Louis LeSire of Acadia)
The DNA, the history of Acadia, the history of Normandy, Pierres trade and handwriting:
makes it clear:
he is either a SUHORD (or SIRART -same thing) or a LeSUEUR………….
Now to find out which!
But I feel confident that the search for what is the familial link for Pierre via his DNA and surname is satisfied.
Cheers Suzanne
Suzanne’s Message # 7:
(April 3, 2010)
I would take LeSueur off the table altogether:
but Suhart/Suhard and Seuare and LeSueur sound too close……….
And we know for a fact one LeSueur lineage used Sirre…………..as the spelling
And in fact this one noble lineage of LeSueurs indeed have a missing Pierre in their records
……….of a similar age………..who drops off their ancestral charts: outcome unknown.
So even though we know for sure he is a Suhart………Suhard……….Seuare……….we have to hang on to LeSueur for awhile too…..
Plus LeSueur is a known Boston family: so a viable way into Acadia…
But from all the hundreds of variations of the name Sire: we have narrowed it down to 2
Took 3 years…………lol………….but we are getting close to locking him in…….
The one thing that still has to stay on the table too: is the possibility that he was Peter Sirre out of Bristol, Dover or London………..
and made his way to Boston just as the Melancons did…………
because Sirre is such a British spelling………….
But the finish line is getting closer!
Suzanne’s Message # 8:
(April 15, 2010)
Just a bit of background on the LeSires:
They do not exist in Normandy prior to 1400 Ad as a spelling:
There are three distinct branches:
1) one Belgic:………Walloon:……primarily:……who were master iron workers, cutters, metalworkers……brought into Amiens regions to help build the massive cathedrals of Paris and areas in the early 1100s……..
2) LeSires from the word Sutor: or shoemakers……….hard to argue if they were the same as the Belgian LeSires……..only DNA would tell us…………..because the term really referred to pattern matter more than shoes or metal…………..using a pattern was the key element
These are seemingly the backbone of most of the LeSires of Amiens and Picardy………..w
3) Norman: from the Lisures…………who took their name from the Lyon Foret in south eastern Normandy………….the name of the River………..Lieger or something like that:
this is also the backbone of the family name Leger………..this word meaning STREAM
These LeSires are originally found primarily in Dieppe Caen………..and only later in Rouen
What is interesting: is that in no case does the family name Sire by itself exist anywhere in northern France at all…………….
and in every case: it never referred to the term LORD………..or true Sire………..indeed the LeSueurs were Sires as were the Suhards…………and the Lisures……….
But the last name was no reference to this title.
We hope to have a Louis DNA sample soon to add in.
We have also cleared up another Sire profile in the French Heritage DNA project:
one showing the ancestor Vincent Sire of Boulogne sur Mer………….it turns out to be incorrect
Instead this Sire is actually one of the Sayers of Bedfordshire England……….and a near perfect match to the Sears of Missouri USA………….
Looking for Sires is a gruelling job…..or I should say: sorting them out……..lol
Cheers
Message received from Mary-Corrinne Cyr, on January 20, 2010
I was given your email to help clear up the whole Andre/Pierre stuff. I am a direct descendant of Andre’s via his son, Michel, and have been working like crazy with Suzanne to find the link between our two clans as well as the other Sire clans of the world. When comparing my father’s DNA to her father’s (an Andre vs a Pierre), we find there is a genetic difference of 2 (or common ancestor back in about the 1400’s). I am also having my dad undergo other tests to help answer questions such as where we were from before France and to help link us to our original celtic tribe. If you have any questions about what we’ve found/done so far don’t hesitate to contact Suzanne or I, and anything I can help with on the Andre things I’d be more than glad to.
Special Note: Mary-Corrinne “Mickey Cyr, is one of my Co-Administrator of the Cyr Surname Family DNA Project
Message received from Bernard Vigneau on 10/20/2007
“Parcourant votre histoire de l’origine des Cyr, je me dois de vous raconter ma découverte d ‘un petit village de Bourgogne nommé Thury et situé près d’Auxerre en gros trois cents habitants . Jusqu,à là pas de quoi fantasmer . Invité à passer Pâques en 1994 par une amie du nom de Marie-madeleine Benoit j’ai eu la très grande surprise que ce village était habité en majoruté par des Comeau, des Sire, des Benoits, des Bourgeois et des Roy. Simple coincidence ou véritable village d’origine de nos familles ? Je me suis souvent poser la question et me la pose en
After I made the decision to have my own DNA tested, I asked Suzanne to provide me a summary of her research and DNA involvement to post here.
Suzanne’s Message # 9:
(August 22, 2010)
My search began with a question of “Who are We”…….from my daughter.
Thus I asked my father: Bill Sears of Edmunston, NB………..I had not known that he and his uncle John Sears had already been working on this, years previously.
They had determined that they were of the John Sears of 1860AD lineage: tracking back all the way to Jean Baptiste Senior: first to settle in northern NB……
Searching I discovered Pierre……….and the bits known of him……..along with the popular idea he came from either Bourgeil or Montbeliard.
My search started with realizing that Bourgeil has no known Sire clan of any type.
In the beginning: I had a simple 12 marker test from my own father: and at the time 3 other Sires had their DNA posted……one up to 37 markers…..using all the samples at the time: they all showed Pierre as a common ancestor. This included Alberta Cyrs and 2 American samples.
Since that time: all have taken their samples off public display……..I have only my early records to use now.
Before I knew too much about DNA: I could get only a feel of where this DNA should be:
I knew it belonged somewhere from Basque regions: up and over to Brittany, Normandy and into the British Isles……..
Armed with this as background information:……I began a pure name search.
I thus went to Montbeliard: found the local Sire genealogists: and realized quickly from their direction that Pierre could not possibly be one of them: they have a near perfect record of each one born: there is no Pierre born to Jean Christophe, etc. and this clan tracks back to around 1100AD with near perfect records.
Next I sourced out the LeSires of Belgium and nearby French areas: who indeed were in the ironworks business: these were incredibly wealthy men………..I cannot yet completely exclude them as a source for Pierre………..
Then I began to track the Andre Sire lineage: I found the historical records of Loudun and Poitiers which has their family history tracking them back to Geneva Switzerland……..and their DNA testing confirmed it.
I sourced out all the versions of the name in the La Rochelle region………..and found there are probably 3 key groups:
the De Sirés……..of a more southern French or Spanish origin
the De Serres….again: a name tracking into southern France
the Suires: the Swiss
The habit of La Rochelle was to assign nick names: so a De Siré……..can easily become a De Siret…….de Sirois…….de Sirreau……..
The only group that spelled it Sirre: were actually Suirehs…….or Suyrets……….and they lived in a small group near St. Hillaire ………..two groups: one noble, one farmer
There is a small group of LeSers in Tours………who seem to have moved north into Manche to form the LeSires of Perche and region……..
Then I tracked the name via Normandy: and found
Le Sueur
Le Sire
Le Siers
Lisoures
De Sirrés
Le Sors
Suhards
However in each case other than the De Sirrés………they all seem to be Franks: Germans in origin
I travelled down the coast of Aquitaine……….and one finds many Suires………getting to Toulouse: where we do find Sirre………..many of them…….but they should be Visigoths…..
I tracked the name back to Italy and De Siri…………and further back in time as far as I could go.
I tracked all the LeSires of Picardy and related regions:…….using their genealogist: who says: no: no Pierre……
I tracked the name Sirre in Holland via their genealogists: who said: No…….not one of ours.
I tracked it to Norway and Sweden: but: not enough resources yet to make any determination.
I tracked every known version of the name that migrated to the USA in the same time frame:
I tracked it as De Syras in Scotland……….
I tracked all the Sears, Sires, Sirres, LeSueurs and Sayres of England……….
I tracked every available version of this name all over Europe, into Switzerland, Germany: all over the world……………to find a family for Pierre. Zero.
Every single time I hit a dead end………..no European Pierre Sirre so far……..(although I have not been able to connect with a Langueduc Sirre yet to confirm: but this is a remote possibility anyway)
The only viable open door was the Sirres of northern Brittany………..where we do find a Pierre of the right age: but I have not been able to get a response yet from the keepers of this data.
——————————-
All of the Sirre possibilities had to reconcile with the DNA or Acadian history.
Pierre had to be in a place to easily get to Acadia……….and a reason to go.
Next I had his handwriting analyzed: and it indeed proved it was French handwriting of his time line…………but there is a hint in it that he could be a bit older than he said……….its more the handwriting of about a decade earlier………….but it was still French……and the style used by merchants, government officials, scribes……professional men.
So now I needed the name Sirre, western coastal Europe DNA, and professional handwriting to add up for Acadia………..coupled with the word armurier.
Now I had to study this ancient profession to see if I could find Pierre:……..so I spent months researching the trade:…………and tracked as many ancient guild records as I could get to find him………..zero.
—————-
So here I had a few possible Sirre connections: but nothing that added up to a French Pierre Sirre……….
So I turned back to using DNA…………and I started getting not bad matches in Rouen…….associated with the Vikings…………however deeper research led me to realize this families were probably Bretons who threw in their lot with the Vikings.
More and better DNA matches started showing up:………..
if they were French ones: they were all Breton ones………like Pontbriands of St. Malo
and Meunier of Nantes
But otherwise I kept getting southern Irish hits along with some south west Scottish hits………
That led me to have to study the entire history of Celt movement in pre historic France……..and Ireland, etc.
Along the way: if I ran across anything even remotely similar to Sire I would chase it.
But at the end: where I am now: the absolute best DNA match for Pierre is with the Riney family of Tuosist Ireland……….30+ markers perfect match.
Whoever these Rineys were: it is indisputable Pierre is kin to them.
Armed with other strong DNA matches: a pattern began to show up:
O Sheas
Fitzgerald
Leary
all these names that harken back to Dingle and County Kerry………..
I noticed from census records and parish records that the OSheas lived next door to the Rineys……..and the O Sullivans……..
so I researched these clans……..and there it was: SEER…….a branch of the Sullivan clan…..
There really was Irish Seers……….but they did not always use Seer as their last name……certainly less so modernly………….more so anciently.
And these Seers lived amongst all the same surnames that Pierre was matching up to.
I reanalyzed his DNA signature to find unique things………..and he has many: but they are nearly always only identified with SouthWestern Irish of this exact tribal base.
So then I said: well: what is the history of these people……..and I studied and learned that in particular the O Sheas went to France in large numbers: educated there and joined the French military…………..
while others from the general region set up shop in Brittany as merchant agents.
Now I had a reasonable story:
South Irish DNA
French education
Merchant connections to the New World in general
Sirres in Brittany
Historical connections to Acadia
This is the most plausible story base I have been able to put together so far………
I had always thought Sirre was the Anglicized version of Sire…………but I now think Sirre is the Frenchified version of Seer.
And this puts us in Quimper: with the Sirre family.: that I could say is the most likely candidate as kin for Pierre in France………..other than potentially being in Paris itself……….
This research of mine does not close the book ……….but is the best profile of a potential location based upon what we know so far.
If indeed Pierre shows up as South West Irish modal DNA via your sample: it will drastically narrow the possibilities of where he came from.
If not: it will take us out of Ireland ………..back to either southern England or continental Europe …….and I will have to track back to Belgium and or Basque regions.
I have learned this rather unqiue DNA signature of his: is really quite limited as to where it clusters………it is true: one could find perhaps one sample here or there any place in the world………..but in general: it should cluster,,,,,,with leftovers of ancient kin in specific regions.
That 10 at 390 especially reduces the odds of who he is…………is a key identifier…….
So far though he shares about 8 of the unique marker values that the south western Irish carry…
The argument about where these people came from then is important to us:
they themselves say they came from the Gaulish south of France near Briancon……..over to Basque regions; up to Ireland
Others are sure they are simple Belgics………
So far the DNA supports the Belgic story.
If they had come from Basque regions……..tracking back to Geneva or Genoa…….then I have to revisit the Sire lineages along this path.
If they are Belgic: I am quite content that they are pure Irish Seers of their own invention.
With what we have today: the evidence points to the Sirres of Brittany………if French
or
and Irish Seer out of Boston……..if he came into Acadia the way Roger Quaissey and the Grangers did……..either as a run away slave or as a legitimate merchant………..but the Irish were so hated in New England………it would be very hard to be a legitimate Irish merchant.
I do wish to add a bit about the Louis Sires of Acadia………
The British and French records of the pre expulsion times state both Sire and Le Sire……and we know Pierre never used LE……nor did his kin.
Therefore I can assume that the Le Sire belonged to the Louis lineage.
I dont know how they know he is from Dunkirke…………certainly the Belgic Le Sires were in this entire region: drifting down to Amiens…….back into Belgium………a great number of them.
We do indeed have a later Louis Le Sire signing up for military duty and coming to Canada with the later Carignan soldiers.
Dunkirke was a naval base………..during Louis life: (he was a generation younger than Pierre)
It was a region that spoke Flemish…….not French………..and in general a good portion of Picardy and regions over to the eastern borders did not speak French.
Even Calais: where we also find LeSires: was only half French speaking:
Le Sire as a term in that region was a profession:……..it referred to someone who made things from a pattern…..
(I supposed one could argue the Irish Soar or Seer being Builder might have the same root)
Le Sire was the name given to early: 1100s……iron workers……….those who would create a pattern and heat iron to make the fancy ironsworks shapes on churches………
A great number of them from Belgium were imported into Amiens France for just this purpose.
In later years: as the cloth trade took hold: we find vast numbers of Le Sires in the clothing business: mostly all poor…….and leaders of the Huguenot movement in France…….in fact, some claim that Amiens cloth workers actually were the entire fire behind the Huguenot revolutions.
This pattern maker designation thus became a word to refer to all those who used patterns to make things………..so one could probably find many DNA patterns in the Le Sires.
One lineage of the Le Sires became fabously weathly with castles and ties to royalty: most were simple peasants.
Now Louis Le Sires parents include a mother of the name Rimbault……..a name highly associated with Rouen……and of course we already had Rimbaults in Acadia prior to his arrival from Rouen regions…….
LeSire is a big name in Rouen as well…………..
That these two names should be in Dunkirke is quite odd…….if they were: they would have to be attached to the military: navy.
The only things I have seen suggest that the mother was from Dunkirke……….and that Jean Sire married her there
Sire was not a family name anywhere in northern France…….only LeSire……..using that Sire spelling……….
so the possibilities for Louis are:
a) he was born in Rouen of a fairly high family (especially to marry a Rimbault) but was with the military and got stationed in Dunkirke
b) he is a Picard Le Sire
Now I dont know if these Belgic origin LeSires were Franks or Celts………..no known DNA samples.
I have tried without success to encourage Louis Cyr family members to get a DNA test……….but perhaps with your Cyr site this could finally be achieved.
Your own DNA will not only confirm or deny the samples I have had to work with up until now:
it will confirm or deny this Irish origin.
I think it is an amazing gift to post your results when you get them: the standard will be set for descendents from now to thousands of years in the future as to who Pierre was.
Cheers
Suzanne